TimeTechTalk.com Home

TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Another SAS Original Design on it's Way from A. Cairello and VIXA Watch!

Welcome to 3T! Please take the time to register and join in on the friendly,knowledgeable watch talk.Please note that not all registrations will receive an immediate activation e-mail.Those who do not receive an immediate notification will be activated manually within 48hrs. by an admin. without an e-mail activation url sent to you,you may then sign in using your username and password,if you feel there is a problem please e-mail us at timetechtalk@hotmail.com and include your name and username and we activate your account.Thank You!

 Moderated by: 3T Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Printer Friendly
Another SAS Original Design on it's Way from A. Cairello and VIXA Watch!  Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 01:07 pm
   
49th Post
Hammerfjord
Moderator


Joined: Thu Apr 16th, 2009
Location: Arctic, Norway
Posts: 5600
Status: 
Offline
bigrustypig wrote:
Hammerfjord wrote:

When you count all hours you spent struggling with them, your case certainly costed as much as a German one.


+1. Totally agree and I chime in with William's point. Many times all that anxiety isn't worth it and best to always saddle up with the pros. There is a market of WIS out there willing to spend a little more if the cases are sourced from the pros. In the end, like many things in life, you always get what you pay for.


Agree on that Jeff: Many are willing to put some extra buks for a product coming from reputable German companies such as Fricker or even smaller brands such as Kazimon or Tourby.ThumbsUp02.gif

Back To Top    

 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 01:41 pm
   
50th Post
oagaspar
Admin


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 23529
Status: 
Offline
I also agree w/Jeff but watch knowledge is why we are here,and knowing which companies are following tradition as far as where they are produced is getting harder to figure out with each year imo.
...all of the contract Swiss and German case makers have a Hong Kong affilliate...and visa-versa...even Fricker,that do work equally as well,and placed side by side,it would be hard for any watch enthusiast to pick which was made in Germany or HK...not all Fricker cases are produced in Germany and that is straight from Fricker!
....I know several very well received micro-brands that use the same factory as Fricker does in HK,and the watches as well, even though the "Swiss" or "Made in Germany" label is not present..
...and then you have the HK factories that will put anything you want on the dial,especially "Swiss Made"...imo if a watch is contracted and made in a HK facility and then supposedly sent to Switzerland for assembly and final inspection,what makes it better than the HK assembled watch?...sorry but I reserve my Swiss and German watch bucks for brands that have proven they deserve the label,not just because it says it on the dial.no.gif

Back To Top  

 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 02:06 pm
   
51st Post
bigrustypig
3T WIS


Joined: Sat Apr 11th, 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 7208
Status: 
Offline
oagaspar wrote:
I also agree w/Jeff but watch knowledge is why we are here,and knowing which companies are following tradition as far as where they are produced is getting harder to figure out with each year imo.
...all of the contract Swiss and German case makers have a Hong Kong affilliate...and visa-versa...even Fricker,that do work equally as well,and placed side by side,it would be hard for any watch enthusiast to pick which was made in Germany or HK...not all Fricker cases are produced in Germany and that is straight from Fricker!
....I know several very well received micro-brands that use the same factory as Fricker does in HK,and the watches as well, even though the "Swiss" or "Made in Germany" label is not present..
...and then you have the HK factories that will put anything you want on the dial,especially "Swiss Made"...imo if a watch is contracted and made in a HK facility and then supposedly sent to Switzerland for assembly and final inspection,what makes it better than the HK assembled watch?...sorry but I reserve my Swiss and German watch bucks for brands that have proven they deserve the label,not just because it says it on the dial.no.gif


Very true. In this day and age, a WIS has to be sharper on his/her toes and whenever in doubt, must consult before dinero changes hands. As they say, "fools rush in where seasoned WIS fear to tread..."dog smile.gif

Back To Top    

 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 08:56 pm
   
52nd Post
Hammerfjord
Moderator


Joined: Thu Apr 16th, 2009
Location: Arctic, Norway
Posts: 5600
Status: 
Offline
Seems like Hong-Kong factories got it to finally bottom rot everybody who's producing cases in large quantities. Didn't know about Fricker and I must say that I'm deceived. It's thrue that it's harder and harder by now to know where parts are sourced and all this grey market's expention is getting scary for the one who's after something genuine and do not want to break the bank.
It's really time to change rules about the "Swiss Made" label before Switzerland even has it's cheese produced in China....

Back To Top  

 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 09:35 pm
   
53rd Post
joecb
3T WIS


Joined: Thu May 14th, 2009
Location: East Hampton, New York USA
Posts: 1220
Status: 
Offline
Hammerfjord wrote: Seems like Hong-Kong factories got it to finally bottom rot everybody who's producing cases in large quantities. Didn't know about Fricker and I must say that I'm deceived. It's thrue that it's harder and harder by now to know where parts are sourced and all this grey market's expention is getting scary for the one who's after something genuine and do not want to break the bank.
It's really time to change rules about the "Swiss Made" label before Switzerland even has it's cheese produced in China....

 

So Will, what are you saying....their gonna open a swiss cow dairy in China and send the milk back to  Switzerland to be processed into cheese?

OR..

As long as 51% of the cows are swiss and the cheese is sent back to Switzerland from China, and cased or packaged, there, then it's still considered swiss made cheese under the Swiss Dairy Federation?whichone.gifcrazy.gif

Back To Top    

 Posted: Thu May 12th, 2011 11:06 pm
   
54th Post
Skipdawg
3T WIS


Joined: Thu Mar 29th, 2007
Location: Washington USA
Posts: 14897
Status: 
Offline
joecb wrote: Hammerfjord wrote: Seems like Hong-Kong factories got it to finally bottom rot everybody who's producing cases in large quantities. Didn't know about Fricker and I must say that I'm deceived. It's thrue that it's harder and harder by now to know where parts are sourced and all this grey market's expention is getting scary for the one who's after something genuine and do not want to break the bank.
It's really time to change rules about the "Swiss Made" label before Switzerland even has it's cheese produced in China....

 

So Will, what are you saying....their gonna open a swiss cow dairy in China and send the milk back to  Switzerland to be processed into cheese?

OR..

As long as 51% of the cows are swiss and the cheese is sent back to Switzerland from China, and cased or packaged, there, then it's still considered swiss made cheese under the Swiss Dairy Federation?whichone.gifcrazy.gif



With all that travel that will be some ripe cheese.

happy1.gif

Back To Top  

 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 12:13 am
   
55th Post
movas
3T WIS
 

Joined: Sat Dec 11th, 2010
Location:  
Posts: 26
Status: 
Offline
IMO, the country of manufacture really doesn't play much into the equation. There are fake goods coming out from eastern european countries, heck there was a report about fake Ferrero Rocher chocolates, made in france, there's fake armani clothes from Italy!.....

However, what really matters is the factory that is producing it. Whether it be Fricker, or another factory for that matter. For example, I will next use a factory that produces cases for Citizen and a few other more established brands..... yes, some that claim to be swiss made as well. The prices are double what we have paid, but from the samples we have received, the quality and precision is definitely higher.

I was just in a factory in HK assembling watches that were 'swiss made'. What they did was send the parts to switzerland to be put together and 'certified', then shipped back to HK to reassemble as the assembly there was bad and only more for show and certification. Is this the future we want as consumers? The level of deceit goes beyond what we think and alot of times it's just a marketing ploy. Look we have a 'swiss made' watch, they don't. You should pay more for it because of that.... ultimately as consumers, we should be the ones dictating demand not the other way around.

When you start out in this industry, especially without much experience like myself, you take the cheapest one that comes your way. Sometimes because of the low quantities we start producing we don't have much of a choice either.

Just saying that best X product is best made in X country doesn't solve any problems and don't lead to any improvements. It only leads to monopoly. What is needed more is education (both ways) and a willingness to change and learn.

What happened to SAS is unfortunate. Same can be said for CRUX. But it again goes to show the variety of brands and philosophy. Unfortunately, with sub-contract manufacturing, again regardless of country of manufacture, you are definitely open to these situations.

Last edited on Fri May 13th, 2011 12:18 am by movas

Back To Top    

 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 11:52 am
   
56th Post
Hammerfjord
Moderator


Joined: Thu Apr 16th, 2009
Location: Arctic, Norway
Posts: 5600
Status: 
Offline
About this one Movas:I was just in a factory in HK assembling watches that were 'swiss made'. What they did was sent the parts to switzerland to be put together and 'certified', then shipped back to HK to reassemble as the assembly there was bad and only more for show and certification.
Bad assembly in Switzerland so sent to Hong-Kong for a better one??? In wich place did they ask to have them watches asembled in Switzerland? A carpenter office who took 10$ a watch?
Most of the time, the assembly is in fact not so good in Hong-Kong: That's a fact that I verified and that's why I'm not anymore into Asian-assembled micro-brands.
Ask Invicta what made them a bad reputation on the market: The famous assembly in Asia with hands and dials loosing outbravo.gif
So offcourse, if you want a cheap case, with cheap parts, cheaply mounted and certified "Swiss" that's maybe the way to go as you say: Hong-Kong.
The only point here, one more time, is: Is the watch coming back cheap to us???
If it does: We understand without beeing rocket-ingeneers that it's all Asian components. No big mistery there with the "Swiss-Made" laws running actualy.
Or is it coming to 1500-2500$ to us because it wears a "Swiss-Made" and a konwn brand label?
Like Walca Far East and them sweet blue fabric?

It's all coming down to the price amigo: That's where we feel robed or not...Swiss-Made or not sadely.

Back To Top  

 Posted: Fri May 13th, 2011 01:37 pm
   
57th Post
joecb
3T WIS


Joined: Thu May 14th, 2009
Location: East Hampton, New York USA
Posts: 1220
Status: 
Offline
I think what Movas stated about grades of components and use of factories for cases and who does final assembly goes to the heart of the matter.

It all comes down to specific company and how honest they are in their marketing.
I agree that there are very good far east companies that are producing cases and movements that can rival swiss components, and their are Asian manufacturers who have very good quality control, and do very good assembly, but they are pricing very close to swiss costs for the same work.
But when you have a company that practices deception in order to win prestige and charge higher "Swiss" prices" As Will stated "We feel Robbed".

Will's example of Invicta is the classic greed company. I believe in the begining they were practiceing real ethics and when marketing a particular watch as "Swiss Made" or labeled "Swiss" they really were swiss made and the quality showed through, even though I'm sure some parts were really asian built. But greed set in and we all know where Inivcta went...
I still own several Invictas that I will keep, which I feel are the last of their true swiss built watches, and they have been trouble free and still look great after six or seven years.
I think we as consumers are just looking for honesty from the manufacturer, and I've seen alot of micro brand owners who are totaly up front about where their watches are made and do put tremendous effort into overseeing the quality of their watches before selling them, this is integrity.

Back To Top    

 Posted: Mon May 16th, 2011 09:49 pm
   
58th Post
romeo-1
3T WIS


Joined: Tue Mar 17th, 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 270
Status: 
Offline
oagaspar wrote: seems everyone is using the SAS most original design...A.Cairelli is next in line with this Italian Forum fora watch!

Caro iscritto oagaspar,

Come sempre miglioriamo i nostri servizi, abbiamo inserito nuove rubriche molto interessanti:

La prima è VISTI SU EBAY: uno speciale spazio dedicato alle aste che potrebbero interessarci ma abbiamo bisogno dell'aiuto di altri forumisti per poter cogliere l'occasione o lasciare perdere.
La trovi qui: [url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=97]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=97[/url]

Abbiamo inserito: OROLOGI RUBATI, seriali e altre notizie utili.
La trovi qui: [url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=98]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=98[/url]
Un database che aiuterà la ricerca e fornira' un valido controllo on line.

La nuova rubrica dedicata ai GRUPPI di ACQUISTO, dove i forumisti possono accettare le offerte di fornitori disposti a fare sconti su qualche orologio comprato in certe quantità.
Merita dargli un'occhiata, in questo momento è attiva questa offerta: il Forum Watch A. Cairelli - Roma 2011 uno strepitoso orologio sub 1000 metri ad un prezzo strabiliante per gli iscritti: 268,00 euro con valvola ad elio, fino a che ce ne sono di disponibili, un'offerta per immergersi questa estate:
[url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51988]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51988[/url]

Orologiando vi augura una splendida navigazione!

Grazie per averci scelto.

Orologiando Internet Staff
www.orologiando.org
info@orologiando.org

 
You are a sad and pathetic little man to take such joy in the outright theft of this design.  Thankfully those with even an iota of intelligence (something of which is obviously lacking here) know    the real story and would not favor such brands as Crux with even a sideways glance.   Please do me a favor and ban me for life from this pathetic and deluded forum...I want nothing to do with this anymore.   My only regret is that Benarus, a stand-up model of how a watch manufacturer should be, is a sponsor here and not on a more legitimate site...

Oh, and if anyone wants to slag me for this post, I can be found on WatchUseek...with the adults.

Back To Top  

 Posted: Mon May 16th, 2011 10:01 pm
   
59th Post
oagaspar
Admin


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 23529
Status: 
Offline
romeo-1 wrote: oagaspar wrote: seems everyone is using the SAS most original design...A.Cairelli is next in line with this Italian Forum fora watch!

Caro iscritto oagaspar,

Come sempre miglioriamo i nostri servizi, abbiamo inserito nuove rubriche molto interessanti:

La prima è VISTI SU EBAY: uno speciale spazio dedicato alle aste che potrebbero interessarci ma abbiamo bisogno dell'aiuto di altri forumisti per poter cogliere l'occasione o lasciare perdere.
La trovi qui: [url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=97]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=97[/url]

Abbiamo inserito: OROLOGI RUBATI, seriali e altre notizie utili.
La trovi qui: [url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=98]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=98[/url]
Un database che aiuterà la ricerca e fornira' un valido controllo on line.

La nuova rubrica dedicata ai GRUPPI di ACQUISTO, dove i forumisti possono accettare le offerte di fornitori disposti a fare sconti su qualche orologio comprato in certe quantità.
Merita dargli un'occhiata, in questo momento è attiva questa offerta: il Forum Watch A. Cairelli - Roma 2011 uno strepitoso orologio sub 1000 metri ad un prezzo strabiliante per gli iscritti: 268,00 euro con valvola ad elio, fino a che ce ne sono di disponibili, un'offerta per immergersi questa estate:
[url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51988]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51988[/url]

Orologiando vi augura una splendida navigazione!

Grazie per averci scelto.

Orologiando Internet Staff
www.orologiando.org
info@orologiando.org

 
You are a sad and pathetic little man to take such joy in the outright theft of this design.  Thankfully those with even an iota of intelligence (something of which is obviously lacking here) know    the real story and would not favor such brands as Crux with even a sideways glance.   Please do me a favor and ban me for life from this pathetic and deluded forum...I want nothing to do with this anymore.   My only regret is that Benarus, a stand-up model of how a watch manufacturer should be, is a sponsor here and not on a more legitimate site...

Oh, and if anyone wants to slag me for this post, I can be found on WatchUseek...with the adults.
Hey Juliet...who said you were a member here?,we keep guys  like you around for laughs...Eh!..and you know the real story?...spit it out,or do you swallow the BS they spew on that adult forum?dog smile.gif...for such an adult, this thread managed to keep civil,without any name calling until you came along...that's what is called the WUS mentality....you obviously do not know the true story and are easily influenced by the un-knowing mix of self proclaimed expert googlenoobs you seem to look up to...and with all your misplaced anxiety and passion over this matter you don't even own a SAS!no.gif

Back To Top    

 Posted: Mon May 16th, 2011 10:07 pm
   
60th Post
Johnny P
Advisor


Joined: Thu Nov 3rd, 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1784
Status: 
Offline
oagaspar wrote:
romeo-1 wrote: oagaspar wrote: seems everyone is using the SAS most original design...A.Cairelli is next in line with this Italian Forum fora watch!

Caro iscritto oagaspar,

Come sempre miglioriamo i nostri servizi, abbiamo inserito nuove rubriche molto interessanti:

La prima è VISTI SU EBAY: uno speciale spazio dedicato alle aste che potrebbero interessarci ma abbiamo bisogno dell'aiuto di altri forumisti per poter cogliere l'occasione o lasciare perdere.
La trovi qui: [url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=97]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=97[/url]

Abbiamo inserito: OROLOGI RUBATI, seriali e altre notizie utili.
La trovi qui: [url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=98]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=98[/url]
Un database che aiuterà la ricerca e fornira' un valido controllo on line.

La nuova rubrica dedicata ai GRUPPI di ACQUISTO, dove i forumisti possono accettare le offerte di fornitori disposti a fare sconti su qualche orologio comprato in certe quantità.
Merita dargli un'occhiata, in questo momento è attiva questa offerta: il Forum Watch A. Cairelli - Roma 2011 uno strepitoso orologio sub 1000 metri ad un prezzo strabiliante per gli iscritti: 268,00 euro con valvola ad elio, fino a che ce ne sono di disponibili, un'offerta per immergersi questa estate:
[url=http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51988]http://www.orologiando.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51988[/url]

Orologiando vi augura una splendida navigazione!

Grazie per averci scelto.

Orologiando Internet Staff
www.orologiando.org
info@orologiando.org

 
You are a sad and pathetic little man to take such joy in the outright theft of this design.  Thankfully those with even an iota of intelligence (something of which is obviously lacking here) know    the real story and would not favor such brands as Crux with even a sideways glance.   Please do me a favor and ban me for life from this pathetic and deluded forum...I want nothing to do with this anymore.   My only regret is that Benarus, a stand-up model of how a watch manufacturer should be, is a sponsor here and not on a more legitimate site...

Oh, and if anyone wants to slag me for this post, I can be found on WatchUseek...with the adults.
Hey Juliet...who said you were a member here?,we keep ass clowns like you around for laughs...Eh!..and you know the real story?...spit it out,or do you swallow?dog smile.gif



I think he swallows WhatsUpStupid BS.subtlelaugh.gif

Back To Top  

Current time is 02:06 pm Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next Page Last Page    
TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Another SAS Original Design on it's Way from A. Cairello and VIXA Watch! Top



Lead Theme By: Di @ UltraBB
UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2012 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.1833 seconds (23% database + 77% PHP). 40 queries executed.