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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Automatic space watch? Hahaha: No gravitation, no spinning rotor |
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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > Automatic space watch? Hahaha: No gravitation, no spinning rotor |
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| Automatic space watch? Hahaha: No gravitation, no spinning rotor | Rating: 
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 12:31 pm |
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1st Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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This is it, I take it up: Again and again everywhere I look, Fortis watches get profiled in announces or profile themself as "Official cosmonauts watch"... The only problem is that most of those watches are automatic. I thought many times that I should bring this up and time went by... Now , looking at a Marine Master selling on the net, I saw the back of the watch engraved "FORTIS B42 OFFICIAL COSMONAUTS AUTOMATIC"  The Omega Speedmaster Moon watch have a mechanical movement: Not automatic. Why? Well, very simple...No gravitation force in space, no force applied on the rotor and no spinning...Then no power in the movement? But most of us know that since long: I don't want to sound like bringing old news but this detail irritate me each time I see those watches. So why do they keep announcing and selling "watches used by cosmonauts" and "Space watches"????? Even engraving it back them cases...? Seems to me like most of them average customers believe that they wear watches similar to the ones the cosmonauts are using in space missionshammer.gif Last edited on Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:17 pm by Hammerfjord |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 12:35 pm |
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2nd Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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don't let Fortis here that Will... ....many models of the B-42 have the "Official Cosmonauts"watch engraved on the back but the only one to go to the space station had a Lemania 5100 engine powering the watch....the Sinn 142 ST was also in space using the same Lemania....not sure why this particular chrono movement works but some research is needed...I'll have to ask JohnnyP on this one.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brs1DSxpmNk
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:15 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Ok, after some research: I'm half wrong and half right... To be more accurate: A rotor can be spinned in space but you have to give him impluse by turning your hand the right way... Like anything can be spinned by a repetitive movement in absence of gravitation. The Lemania 5100 spin only one way so that reduce in half the movements who would be working on it to load the spring...  All in all, you better wånk a lot when you have an automatic watch in space...  Ps:This movement has also many nylon parts, so I would not place it in the best creations ever Last edited on Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:18 pm by Hammerfjord |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:23 pm |
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4th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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you can still wind an automatic regardless since the only function of the rotor is to keep it wound while wearing it. ...and the Lemania 5100 is considered one of the best movements ever made...only because of the high cost of production is it not used as much today and most companies will opt to use the Val 77xx series or eta 2894 which cost far less and are more readily available....Sinn,Fortis and AP use it but you are going to pay for it... 
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:24 pm |
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5th Post |
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stew77 Admin 
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This is a very interesting question to ponder William... new edit: (and it looks like you got it figured out while I was typing)...I've thought about this a bit myself and looked into it a bit and concluded that an automatic watch WILL IN FACT work in space, even in the presence of zero gravity. In reading about the manual wind Omega Speedmaster, it appears to me that NASA chose the manual-wind Omega Speedy for use in space based on very specific criteria which included a long list of POSSIBLE severe environments (and I think the Speedmaster was chosen in 1965 and Omega didn't make an automatic version until 1973...for whatever reason, Omega submitted the manual wind version to Nasa for the 1978 selection and it was selected based on the long list of criteria). Nasa mistakenly believed that gravity was required to spin the rotor of an automatic watch, however, which was an incorrect assumption. In reality, INERTIA moves the rotor of an automatic, not gravity (The principle of inertia can be stated as - "In an isolated system, a body at rest will remain at rest and a body moving with constant velocity will continue to do so, unless disturbed by an unbalanced force"). In the case of automatic watch, the unbalanced force is the rotor. I think of it this way...An automatic watch winds through the use of a weighted rotor attached to the watch movement. As the watch moves (from the movement of the person's arm, for instance), the rotor does not want to move, however, because its center of mass (the rotor) is different that the center of effort (the rotor shaft), the rotor begins to spin. And as the rotor spins, it winds the watch. Now there are some things that are correct when thinking about gravity and winding an automatic movement...It's correct that in a gravity field, you can keep a watch stationary and rotate it, which makes the rotor turn and wind the watch. Like for instance in a watch winder, which definitely WOULD NOT wind a watch in zero gravity. BUT that's not the only way you can get the rotor to turn...Imagine placing the watch flat on a table and pushing it back and forth. Of course the rotor would turn, but you haven't involved gravity in the least...you are using Inertia. OK...this has become way too geeky of a discussion...but that's how I see it. Last edited on Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:28 pm by stew77 |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:29 pm |
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6th Post |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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from the web: Automatic watches work in space "An automatic watch will not work in space, because there's no gravity there."You sometimes hear or read the above as an explanation for why some models of watches used in space are manual wind instead of automatic. This explanation is not quite right. It has been suggested in some watch information that when spaceflight was new, one didn't know for certain that automatic watches would work when worn by spacefarers, as the reason behind space models being manual wind. There is some kind of reason to this, since it wasnt's very farfetched to think that the wearer would float around more or less motionless most of the time. (Obviously an automatic watch doesn't wind if it's motionless.) In practice it didn't turn out that way, you consume lots of calories during spaceflight. The real reason for early manual wind watches in space For example, in Breitling's own catalogue it's clearly written that the Cosmonaute model (a chronograph) was introduced in 1962 and that the company invented the automatic wind chronograph in 1965. The Speedmaster was chosen in 1965 and Omega didn't introduce an automatic variant until 1973. The manual one was submitted to NASA for the 1978 selection and adopted. I don't know, but this might have had to do with better ability to withstand the possibly severe environment. And since then, there has been at least one kind of autmatic chronograph in space, Sinn's 142 St S for the first time in 1985. How automatics work without gravity It's correct that in a gravity field, you can keep a watch stationary and rotate it, which makes the rotor turn and wind the watch. Like for instance in a watch winder, which would not wind watches in zero gravity. But that's not the only way you can get the rotor to turn: Imagine placing a watch flat on a table and pushing it back and forth. Of course the rotor would turn, but you haven't involved gravity in the least. Document created 2001 Aug 19, last modified 2001 Sep 07 by Urban
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:40 pm |
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7th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Yes, Chris... I saw it in this link:http://www.x-plane.org/home/furo/watches/watches_in_space.html But the way I see it, the winding would not be optimum as on earth, as it comes only from direct impluse... But it's thrue: A watch rotor can be winded in space. The question is: Wouldn't a manual winding movement be better and safer for a cosmonaut who's not running around all day? Or an automatic with manual winding feature...? Oscar: I know that the Lemania is a wanted movement but the nylon parts don't attract me... Tissot burned themselfs on that technology... Last edited on Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:45 pm by Hammerfjord |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 01:46 pm |
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8th Post |
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stew77 Admin
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Hammerfjord wrote: Yes, Chris... I saw it in this link:http://www.x-plane.org/home/furo/watches/watches_in_space.html Yes...that's the link William...good summary and a great way to think about it IMO! But, I agree with you...if you have to rely on Inertia (direct impulse from the wearer)...it would seem that a manual winding movement would be better and safer without the concern that the watch is getting enough automatic winding through inertial movments of a rotor.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 02:41 pm |
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9th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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stew77 wrote:Hammerfjord wrote:Yes, Chris... I saw it in this link:http://www.x-plane.org/home/furo/watches/watches_in_space.html Yes...Well, as I see it, I may have concluded too fast and went too hard on Fortis. But the 5100 Lemania was choosen for it's simplicity as it had a direct transmission, making it more resistant to shocks. Now Fortis uses ETA movements in it's watches: The same 2826 2824 and 7750 as used in many trades. All in all, every watch with those movements and a good construction could eventualy be a space watch: After Fortis criteria... I would still wear an Omega speedmaster "Moon" if I would go in space... Those ETA movements would never pass any hard space flight test as the Speedmaster passed... And that's certainly why the special property of the Lemania had it choosen for space missions. Even that, they still had the choice of the 52'' serial of Lemania movements who are mechanical... So why an auto in the 70's and not a mechanical as in the 60's? Not because they didn't have any auto in the 60's when they first started those missions: There's a bunch of space watches who are mechanicals and who been used in the 80's and 90's so the auto isn't the very first choice apparently, due to them weakness in extreme conditions... I personnaly had to give up with autos on my job: They break. But my 2801-2 hold everything and never been alterated by any heavy and long hammering.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 04:32 pm |
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10th Post |
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stew77 Admin
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Hammerfjord wrote: stew77 wrote: All good points William...100% agree... I think they went with the manual winding mechanicals for the "OTHER" criteria that had been laid out for space worthiness and extreme conditions. BTW...here is the caseback (and side view) to my Fortis B-42 Marinemaster...I would not hesitate one second to take it on my next trip to the moon!!! happy1.gifIt is a fantastically built watch IMO...great value too!  
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 05:00 pm |
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11th Post |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Yes, I like the Marine Master: Got a great look I must say. But it's a 2826-2 inside: You have the basic version for around 100$. I bought one last month in fact. I'd say that this watch you better deserve a 2892-2 but then you would miss the day feature... But I never saw at it as a "space watch" specialy with the Marine master name, even the dial is more pilot...
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| Posted: Mon Sep 6th, 2010 05:46 pm |
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12th Post |
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SBD 3T WIS
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Actually, the plane will take off...
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