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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > A Chino-Swiss company who makes watches for "mid and high-level range |
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TimeTechTalk.com > Time Tech Talk > Time Talk > A Chino-Swiss company who makes watches for "mid and high-level range |
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Johnny P Advisor 
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A friend sent these links. Check photo very closely on the right side.   http://www.walca.ch/index.php?m=200&c=200 http://www.walca.ch/index.php?m=530&c=530 |
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Hammerfjord Moderator 
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The proof is gone...Erased in front of my eyes by the owner of the site. All pics been taken out...mad.gif Still, I managed to get one of them...  |
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Johnny P Advisor
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mario wrote:uuh what am i looking for You are not looking hard enough. At least the majority of micro brew companies are honest, they will tell you their watches are made in Hong Kong. The only difference between some swiss made brands and, micro brew is that the Swiss has a watch priest that bless their watches prior to leaving Hong Kong. The priest must get paid. |
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Johnny P Advisor
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I saved a few also   |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:mario wrote: There's nothing more to see amigo: The priest passed by there...  |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:I saved a few also JOHNNY! YOU ARE THE MAN!  |
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ncvol17 3T WIS 
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It would be interesting to see who makes what brand and which factories make multiple brands under 1 roof. |
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oagaspar Site Founder 
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it's no a mystery that the Jenny Family aka Walca owns Doxa along with others and have a Swiss manufacturing facility as well as another in HK...nor that the large percentage of Swiss watch companies outsource to HK. ...and yes I am playing the devils advocate as far as Doxa who does put in writing that they meet the Swiss federations guidelines as far as "Swiss Made" which is 51% of the watches cost to manufacture... ...I do agree with Johnny that more companies should speak up and disclose the truth as well. ...the main reason many of the micro-brands are so successful is due to their truthfulness as to the origins of their watches...or at least those supported here on 3T. ...I can name a couple favorites on another forum who will go so far as to not only make false statements and paint a blurred picture by saying certain parts come from different parts of the world in order to mask the fact that they are made in HK and duping good yet gullible WIS into further spreading the lies while they sit back and say notta...the latter being what truly p's me off. ...I don't really care where a watch is made as long as it is made well and sold at a price representative of what is put into it...nothing more nothing less... |
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Johnny P Advisor
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oagaspar wrote:it's no a mystery to WIS who have been around for years that the Jenny Family aka Walca owns Doxa along with others and have a Swiss manufacturing facility as well as another in HK...nor that the large percentage of Swiss watch companies outsource to HK... Amen brotha! Must agree this is nothing new we have known this for years. C'mom some micro brew aren't so bad after all. I will stick with Dievas watches, and a few others. |
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anders213 3T WIS 
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Johnny P wrote
*blush* Sincerely Dievas Watch Company |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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So deep you can hide in your closet, still, Google will get you...fart.gif |
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marinelite 3T WIS 
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Johnny,, find it tough to believe.. the web site deleted the photos within an hours after u posted on 3T.. How the company web owner knew so fast n reacted?? Thks for your link,, it's indeed informative.. I enjoy watches esp buying some with good build quality; country of made is one of last consideration... Johnny P wrote: A friend sent these links. Check photo very closely on the right side. |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS 
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Great info and link, Johnny. So it's true after all.....about Doxa... |
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Johnny P Advisor
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We live in a strange world, Let say Johnny decided to build a 100% Swiss made watch with a top grade ETA 2892, and I decided to sell it at my cost + shipping the majority of the people would completely ignore my watch accept for a few. Get a big watch brand to build the same watch with an ETA 2892 COSC, but case, bracelet and dial are made in Hong Kong shipped back to Switzerland for final assembly and inspection. Big brand charge 10 x more than Johnny brand people would be drooling, wishing that they could afford it etc. Johnny brand would be accused of being made in China, and would bashed to hell. Top grade ETA 2892, and COSC ETA 2892 are the same movement accepts one has been certified by COSC. That’s what going on in real life think about it. Not all name brand watch company does this, so before people start bashing Hong Kong watches or micro brew watches look at your Swiss made timepiece and just wonder. Some big brands do build 100% Swiss made watches, and you’re going to pay the price if that what you want. Don’t forget their overhead is a lot higher than the Johnny brand, (ex: employee salary, building maintenance, benefits etc.) Doxa can make 100% Swiss Made watches, are we willing to pay the price? I know the answer (hell no), leave them alone I like it the way it is. Have a nice day. |
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KenC Admin 
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I'm with Oscar and Johnny on this one...I don't care where it's made as long as it is well made...additionally, those of you who've been around for awhile know that I believe that COSC is a bunch of marketing crap. It may be COSC when tested...it may even be COSC for a while when you get it. But drop it, knock it, bump it, etc...and you will wonder where all that COSC accuracy went! |
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stew77 Admin 
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KenC wrote: I'm with Oscar and Johnny on this one...I don't care where it's made as long as it is well made...additionally, those of you who've been around for awhile know that I believe that COSC is a bunch of marketing crap. It may be COSC when tested...it may even be COSC for a while when you get it. But drop it, knock it, bump it, etc...and you will wonder where all that COSC accuracy went! +1 or +2 on Ken's comment here (Johnny's and Oscar's too). Also agree strongly with Ken regarding COSC...If COSC certification is offered, that's just fine by me but I'm sure not going to pay extra for it if given the option!!! |
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Johnny P Advisor
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There is no doubt in my mind that Doxa meets the Swiss made requirements, but there are a few micro brew that claim Swiss made, and the watch has never saw Switzerland, You all know who you are, it just a matter of time when you get exposed. I'm not talking about 3T micro brew.  |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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We live in a strange world PART II The thing is that through the "Johnny brand", Johnny isn't making much money: He just try to please himself, others, maybe realise a dream and try to introduce himself on the watch market for later economic winnings... Johnny think that beeing thruthfull and honnest is the best way...He want to win hearts with premium quality and affordability. But Johnny forgot that high business is for sharks. The "Big brand" is mostly here to make as much money he can on the watch: Low cost production, a minimum quality then high selling prices. No mercy...The "Big brand" thinks that high prices will set him on high range: Giving status, giving fever to the WI$. He's right. Paradoxally enough: Many WI$ have the need to pay high prices to get the feeling that they buy quality. They also need to see this watch promoted everywhere to feel like they buy something of high quality. They need sometimes to see someone very known in the medias with this "Big brand" watch to feel like they will buy something nice and valuable. Stars are wearing only premium quality? Yes,of course, those guys know everything about watches...Hohoho... Right: They been paid to wear it...So why not!? The "Johnny brand" is cheap because Johnny don't pay stars, don't pay magazines, don't pay TV channels, don't pay people "to do his job since he's fishing the blue marlin on his yacht with chicks all-over(under) his Hawaian shirt" Johnny thinks that he work hard for the WI$, but in fact, the WI$ will just turn his back, ignoring Johnny. Why? Because Johnny is cheap and not known through merchandising. ...Cheap is "CHEAP", unknown is "cheap", unrated is "cheap"... The few who will recognise his watch's quality will not be heard by the WI$. The WI$ morality: Cheap is "not" good, even the quality is there: Because everybody can afford it! So the WI$ can't demarcate himself from his neighbourg because the neighbourg, who's poor, can afford the same watch...That's not good for the WI$ who wants to shine. He constantly have the strange feeling that the "Johnny brand" on his wrist, insulte his social status. Poor WI$...He should just tape a roll of 1000$ bills on his wrist: Maybe he would have it easier when he meet the neighbourg... |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Hammerfjord good point, I must agree. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:Hammerfjord good point, I must agree. I have a strange feeling since yesterday  |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Hammerfjord wrote:Johnny P wrote: Is it clear yet  |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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marinelite wrote:Johnny,, find it tough to believe.. the web site deleted the The day before this thread started, a guy on another forum droped the bomb...Seems like someone from/close Doxa observed it...He certainly passed the word. Within the next 24h after the bomb was droped, the site manager certainly constated abnormal traffic there: Like many visitors/hits compare to normal...As the word was passed and intens trafic seen, they decided to kill the guilty pics, trying to avoid a tsunami. I saw the pics disappearing one by one from the different pages on this site: That was worth gold. As simple as that.  |
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afc14284 3T WIS 
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Very interesting thread my fellow watch lovers, and also, I would definitely decide to purchase the HK outsourced watch if it meets certain standards well defined by the Swiss... then, if Doxa, or any other brand by that matter would put their names on it as we all know it happens, then we know we are purchasing some quality piece that's well worth it... also.... kudos to the micro brands that fez up and don't try to sell you something different.... |
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movas 3T WIS
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Hello people of 3T, It's funny that my first post is actually of someone else's brand, but I think this post is a good indication of how the world of watches works and would like to put forth my opinion on the matter. Being the voice of reason, I just want to say that there is always a method to the madness for certain actions of any brand. You have to ask yourselves, if brand A told you the truth about their manufacturing, would you pay the amount that they think their products are worth based on how much they value their own designs? The fact of the matter is (and I hate to have to say this), is that branding/ marketing/ product placement is a consumer driven decision. If people did not place such a high importance on 'swiss made' watches, then brands will not purport this, even if it was not true. There is very little emphasis on originality and design as watches are becoming more of a commodity. It must have an ETA inside, it must be 316L stainless steel, it must have C3 superluminova, It must be at least 300m WR, AR coating, domed sapphire, etc etc etc.... the list goes on, and when it's stamped 'swiss made' then the price is ratcheted up another notch. I for one do not see what doxa did wrong because they didn't set the rules for 'swiss made' neither did they break those rules. We need to start to question 'why' we buy our watches and what is really important to us as consumers and base our decisions on that. Ultimately the online community for watches is but a very very small percentage of the consumer market for watches as a whole. BTW, Love this forum and hope to contribute where I can. Last edited on Sat Dec 11th, 2010 05:35 am by movas |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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movas wrote:Hello people of 3T, Movas, welcome at first! I have to disagree on some things. People want "Swiss made" at first because it's a guarantee of quality standard. With the different life standards over the world, the costs of productions are differents then the buyer expect to be passed-on those differences. When your watch-cases are made in Hong-Kong, the cost is very reduced. If you justifie your high prices by saying that your cases are made in Switzerland or even inhouse at your own factory and in fact, you have them made at lower cost in China: You are just fooling your clients for making more money. Helenarou don't fool anybody: They have it made in Hong-Kong, say it and pass-on the low prices. Kazimon have it all made in Germany(inhouse for the 1500 case) and justify his higher cost with those facts: Real facts...Not lies: I own a custom 1500. For some different reasons, such as quality standards(one of them can be patriotism), some clients want them watches made in a particular country. If I want a watch 100% made in Norway, I will assume at once that it will cost me more than a watch made in Switzerland as we have higher life standards here, higher taxes on most of things ect...Yes: Everything is expensive in Norway. At the end: We just want what we pay for: Nothing else. We don't like to feel fooled by greedy fabricants: Whoever they can be. |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Hammerfjord we must be on the same wave link That's one of the " Johnny brand" I was referring to Kazimon.    |
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KenC Admin
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movas wrote: Hello people of 3T, Agree to a point, but one must realize that " branding/ marketing/ product placement is a consumer driven decision" is developed and paid for by millions upon millions of dollars of promotion, advertising and endorsements, which ultimately become part of the cost of "production" of the watch (not to mention the corporate salaries involved). Just as in golf, the parts price of a $400 driver is probably less that $20 including graphite shaft, head, grip and assembly, there is a huge investment in sponsorships, advertising and endorsements that comprise most of the manufacturer to retailer price. Rolex, for example (overpriced by anyones standards) must spend close to $100 million a year (more or less) on advertising and endorsements. Those dollars must be expensed somewhere...does it make it a better watch than many others? No...but the "Johnny Watch" is assembled for a certain cost and then promoted for "pennies" on watch forums, etc. If Johnny were to spend 10's of Millions of $ promoting the "Johnny Watch", it would be perceived to be of a higher quality than it may or may not be. |
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Johnny P Advisor
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KenC wrote:
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:Hammerfjord we must be on the same wave link Yes, I was thinking the same in fact: Kazimon is a "Johnny brand". Also, if I would have asked a Big brand to replace them 2824-2 Eta by my own 2500 Co-axial Omega, I would have been gently sendt to hell... Kazim been stretching himself and his team for me: The result is a fabulous watch. The 1500 is a thruthfully produced watch: Even the double domed AR coated sapphire glass is made in Germany. Kazim been posting himself, without that anybody been asking, pictures from his workshop and case making. Doxa fans been asking for it, hoping that Doxa would wash away all doubts emited by scepticals: They are still waiting for those pictures apparently... Transparency is an obligation if you want to interact with your buyers on forums. Obscurity is, in my meaning, generaly caused by many skeletons laying in a secret closet. KenC: I agree with you! |
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SBD 3T WIS
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movas wrote:Hello people of 3T, Well, I sure see it! These rules define the minimum. Just because you've met them doesn't mean that you are being honest with your customers. Look at how Doxa has responded to the situation -- removing the photos and closing threads. What does that tell you? It tells you that they know that part of the value of their watches comes from the false perception that their watch cases are built is Switzerland -- and they are actively trying to eliminate the evidence that shows otherwise. I.e., promoting a lie. While this is morally reprehensible, I'm not even going to argue that they are "wrong" for that reason. They're wrong from a business standpoint. Their PR is almost entirely built around the various WIS fora, and once these folks realize that they're being defrauded, I think that Doxa's business will be impacted. I know it will certainly be a factor for me if I ever consider buying a Doxa in the future...which is something I really doubt now. |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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if any WIS honestly believes their Swiss Made watches are 100% they better take a closer look....Doxa is not the only Swiss brand that outsources to HK and there are very few Swiss companies that can claim 100% Swiss Made today. ....The Jenny Family/Walca Watch Co. picked up the Doxa brand in 1997 and were not a part of the rich heritage founded 100 years ago in Le Locle by Doxa founder Georges Ducommun...however they do carry on the tradition and Doxa fans like myself will always exist... ....over 900 million watches were exported from China last year and chances are we are all wearing watches that have something that came from there whether it be components or the entire watch... |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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oagaspar wrote:if any WIS honestly believes their Swiss Made watches are 100% they better take a closer look....Doxa is not the only Swiss brand that outsources to HK and there are very few Swiss companies that can claim 100% Swiss Made today. For sure Oscar, with all this massive Hong-Kong manufacture, we certainly have Chinese cases/parts in our collection, even they are stampeled "Swiss made"... They just get assembled in Switzerland and that's it! The question is: How much we paid for those watches? I can pay 500-800$ for a top-notch hybride like that, with Chinese parts, Swiss ETA movement and assembled in Switzerland: No problem! But not 1500-2000$ or more... Because at this price, I've been having 100% German or 100% Swiss. If the Doxa subs was selling for 600-800$ max, this thread would have very little meaning. Agree? |
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Johnny P Advisor
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I can officially claim to be an ex-fan. Not because where the watches are made I knew that. But for other reasons, I notice certain writing style at their site, and I swear John P is back or John P, and a certain person are one of the same. If I ever find hard facts or verify the latter, That's the day I will start my own website. It's not going to be pretty (stealth Lume) |
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Johnny P Advisor
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Hammerfjord wrote:
If that. |
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Tony Duronio 3T WIS 
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So are you guys saying my Invictas with Swiss Made on the dial are not Swiss JK, thought I would lighten the mood. Excellent thread JP and good info and opinions being shared |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:Hammerfjord wrote: I just try to be nice and positive...  |
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murphy j 3T WIS 
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I don't care where my case/parts come from so long as they're quality and there's no deception as to origins. I too don't like paying top shelf price for something that cost pennies on the dollar to produce. I've admired the Doxa line of watches for many years and still intend to make one a part of my collection someday. I understand that there's been some on again off again controversy as to parts origin and movement grades so I'll more than likely pick one up on the secondary market to avoid paying the new price. Remember this though.... It was the Swiss who taught the Chinese how to make all this stuff to begin with. So it's the Swiss who got this whole HK parts thing rolling. |
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movas 3T WIS
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Hey hey, The assumption and perception of quality that we as watch collectors have put into the origin of manufacture is one based on a tradition that is not valid anymore. If it was true that the country of origin indicates the tolerences and expertise in CNC machines and production then I would say Made in USA, Japan or Germany and to a lesser extent Taiwan, would be the preferred choice for watches. Having in-house manufacturing capabilities is an entirely different scenario and is extremely rare nowadays too. But even this does not guarantee quality and should not be a barometer for higher price. Ultimately, the only truth is what has been posted about advertising/ marketing dollar. That we pay high dollar for a Rolex/ AP etc because of the image that the brand has paid alot to create. This image is what we either aspire to or want to highlight to the world when we buy/ pay for expensive watches. Also there's the whole commodity that is carried by some higher end watches in the secondhand market. Consumers will not care if they found out that Rolex made their cases in China, in fact they wouldn't even care if Rolex had a seagull movement inside.... end of the day how many customers who shop for a higher end watch actually want to know what's inside? or where it's made? They will care though if they thought that wearing an Omega did not give someone the impression that they weren't a spy with a license to kill :) Doxa unfortunately has not built such an image and still lives within the realm of brands that 'are the same' but cost less. I suppose when people find out that the sum of parts is not necessarily what constitutes the sale price, they get a little worked up. But realistically that's the watch industry for you. That's why homages/ replicas are so popular. It's the extremes of the thought process and everything else hovers in between. Hammerfjord wrote: movas wrote: |
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oagaspar Site Founder
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Hammerfjord wrote: oagaspar wrote: this thread and the issue within has nothing to do with "Doxa the watch" but moreso about "Doxa the company and it's forum on WUS" ...it's the actions of a few mods and company reps that get them in hot water constantly,not the quality nor origins of their watches. |
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Johnny P Advisor
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oagaspar wrote:
 The watches are nice, and once in awhile one will slip threw the crack on QC issue, like any other manufacture. Oscar is correct with his statement it's a known fact on the Doxa forum. I have personally experience the BS a few years ago. Some of you know what I'm talking about. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Johnny P wrote:oagaspar wrote: I never said that the watch was of bad quality: It's just that the price should be lower if the parts are made in China. If the mods set themself in hot waters, it's just because they try to justify the prestige and the high prices of the brand by using a "all parts made in Switzerland" talk. I would maybe have bought a Doxa sub if they wasn't so expensive: I like the 5000T a lot for exemple. But: 1) I will not buy one because I mean that the price is not justified. 2)I will not buy one because I don't like them politic. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Consumers will not care if they found out that Rolex made their cases in China, in fact they wouldn't even care if Rolex had a seagull movement inside.... Sorry Movas, but I'm not convinced by your consumer personnal analyse. You may have decided that in your head but I, personnaly will never say that consumers are generally chicken-heads... Don't forget that you are a consumer yourself. It's actualy dangerous to take others for ignorants: It was proven through history. |
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movas 3T WIS
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As I have said, it's a sad fact. Most consumers are image/ marketing/ branding driven. WE (and I use this term loosely) are but a small percentage of the watch buying community. |
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SBD 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wrote:Johnny P wrote: I was trying to be positive too. But then I noticed that those Walca Far East photos showed cases with dials and hands installed. What are the hands attached to? The movement, no? This suggests that complete watches are rolling out of there... |
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bigrustypig 3T WIS
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This is a forum and all opinions are welcome for sure. I'm enjoying the exchange and learning a lot. But just my 2 cents....its always best to be upfront on a watch's/product's point of origin or manufacture. It's better that way because then the Values of the company flow through the product and into the consumers' hands. Then long term brand loyalty can be created. If a brand bills itself as Swiss-made knowing full well it isn't faithful to the full sense of the word, then that would be a consideration for a purchase. I for one will spend on a watch not Swiss-made if it says so from day 1. I have a few of these pieces but knew full well before the purchase what I was getting into. No regrets to this day. But if a brand hurriedly pulls out its watches from a made in China ad/link and attempts to smother it on digital media, then I certainly may question such a move. I think this was also the point of SBD and the Sheriff. I look at Seiko for an illustration. When it stopped its Made in Japan watches business model sometime back, it removed all references on its dials and casebacks of such. It only reserved such a marking for its lines that are/were truly made in Japan (Prospex, SD, GS lines for example). In the end, caveat emptor may be a loose term after all. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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movas wrote:As I have said, it's a sad fact. Most consumers are image/ marketing/ branding driven. WE (and I use this term loosely) are but a small percentage of the watch buying community. A bit thrue! But I see more and more peolpe joining forums or just observing them to find out if they are about to make the right investment. There's so much informations on the net that can help the beginner. Forums are full of newcomers starting topics such as "What's the best I could have for 3000-5000 buks?" "What should I choose between this and that?" "What's the best deal under 1000 buks" and so on. People have a mine of information just a click away: Now they want to know what they are buying or investing in...It's legitimate. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Don't want to look like I'm digging up rotten bodies out of the graveyard but I should just signalise that the Walca net-site is showing the Doxa cases's pictures again! Maybe as they was stolen and posted here, they found out that it would have been even more suspicious to have them removed permanently... Finally some honnesty there?  http://www.walca.ch/index.php?m=200&c=200 |
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Chick Hazzard 3T WIS 
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I am still disappointed about the entire Doxa issue. I did not know anything until that guy went loco on WUS. I learned some interesting stuff, and then it all disappeared like magic, never to be spoken of again. Interesting... Last edited on Mon Dec 27th, 2010 07:38 pm by Chick Hazzard |
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afc14284 3T WIS
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Hey guys, I think these thread is mentioned on wikileaks it's called the DOXA Report.... |
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watcher 3T WIS 
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afc14284 wrote: Hey guys, I think these thread is mentioned on wikileaks Hehe |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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I read the same crap everywhere from Doxa's courageous knights who would give them souls for the ghost of a grail without looking for the cost! It really feels like they had a vision and will sacrifice for it! Here's an exemple where one of those knights(henry*) arrives to save his grail from the disgrace:http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0_T6fVOSVyMJ:forums.watchuseek.com/f2/have-doxa-recover-all-controversy-past-484611-post3557700.html+doxa+controversy&cd=2&hl=no&ct=clnk&gl=no Now: Explain them 2 things if they may have enough brain to understand... -WHEN A PRODUCT IS MADE BY A CHEAPER WAY, YOU SHOULD PAY LESS MONEY FOR IT, EVEN THE QUALITY-STANDARDS ARE MET: IT'S CALLED JUSTICE ON THE FREE MARKET! -WHY PAYING MORE THAN YOU SHOULD THEN? JUST FOR THE PLEASURE TO FEEL LIKE AN OPULENT PERSON WHO WIPE HIS A$$ WITH MONEY? DO YOU RESPECT MONEY,YOURSELF AND OTHERS THIS WAY? You don't get smarter,richer or brighter when you use money for nothing: You just get føcked. That's my word to all posers who think that the strass is what's making the man under the shell. Save your money for lower times: Be smart! |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Taking out an old skeleton from the closet, but hey, OceanicTime suddenly found out that Walca Far-East was not only producing for us but they was also producing for THEM http://oceanictime.blogspot.com/2011/10/doxa-shark-ceramica-xl-forbidden-diver.html |
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eddiea 3T WIS
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Hammerfjord wrote:Taking out an old skeleton from the closet, but hey, OceanicTime suddenly found out that Walca Far-East was not only producing for us but they was also producing for THEM Of course they are, and the point is not , I don't care where the watch is made as long as I can afford it? I look the other way but a full, honest disclosure by the manufacturer ... if 49% of a watch is made in China , that's cool but then ,I want to see that reflected on the price ... and Doxa, definitely do not reflect that . Last edited on Sun Nov 20th, 2011 06:44 pm by eddiea |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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eddiea wrote:Hammerfjord wrote: That's mostly what we been expressing all the way through this thread if you been reading it... Doxa's prices are not justified by a Swiss manufacture of the pieces. What is funny right now is that the name Doxa is all over pure Chinese made watches: So finally , they sort of came out of the closet after many years of denial... |
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mrneddles 3T WIS 
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HammerfjordSo finally , they sort of came out of the closet after many years of denial... Has DOXA officially come clean on this issue? I can't stomach WUS and haven't been monitoring the issue. |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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mrneddles wrote:HammerfjordSo finally , they sort of came out of the closet after many years of denial... Has DOXA officially come clean on this issue? I can't stomach WUS and haven't been monitoring the issue. No, Doxa still says the same again and again...Last claims was "...The DOXA SUB is 80-90% Swiss made..." The thing is that right now, with the 50% law, we fall there: “Products are considered Swiss products if they are fundamentally local products or if they have been completely manufactured in Switzerland. In the case of products that have been only partly manufactured in Switzerland, the rule applies that the Swiss portion of the production cost (including basic materials, semi-finished products, accessories, wages and production overhead excluding distribution costs) must be at least 50%. " Also from the Federation of the Swiss watch industry : "This law is based on a concept according to which Swiss quality depends on the amount of work actually carried out on a watch in Switzerland, even if some foreign components are used in it." So if I understand well, exactly as a Swiss movement is categorized as "Swiss-Made" , the watch has to get 50% of involved cost from Switzerland to deserve the "Swiss-Made" appellation : Put a good grade 100% Swiss movement of 150$ value and fit it in a 100% Chinese case/bracelet/dial/hands at value 100$ , the watch is already 60% "Swiss". Put over that 250$ in full assembly and testings in Switzerland, the watch total cost is 500$ and is then 80% Swiss so speaking... Right now, since years, we still wait for the Walca workshop´s pictures from Bienne...? |
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Hammerfjord Moderator
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Last comment from Doxa on them forum when a guy bring the Walca Far East controversy with pictures of the site and ask somehow if Doxa has it's divers made there: "This has come up time and again, Walca is owned by the Jenny's. Walca has production facilities in Hong Kong/China and Switzerland. Walca produces "private label" watches for clients, with the option of Swiss made or Asian made." Cheers, Andy Customer Care DOXA Watches The thing is that when you search on Google-Earth about Doxa´s only address and office in Bienne(Switzerland) as they stipulate on them site: Montres DOXA SA Rue de Zurich 23 CH-2500 Bienne 8 Switzerland You will find a building apparently divided in two companies: One is ROFIN Baasel Swiss AG , the other one is WALCA Trad.Corp AG. No Doxa signs there... It's WALCA: Is it offices or is there any factory...Mystery. So WALCA produces watches in Switzerland and also in China with it's 2 factories? Those guys are saying that the Walca Far East is there to meet the Chinese demand after cheap watches: Like those! http://www.doxa-in-asia.com/en/product_details.php?cid=37&id=303 Who are still bearing the "Swiss-Made" label...? WTF? Even they are manufactured in Hong-kong by WALCA F.E ? Yes, of course, the 50% law... So why Doxa's divers should be REALLY made in Switzerland, if they are from the very same WALCA company and subjected to the same 50% law who authorize those bad Chinese "Dolexa" wearing the "Swiss-Made" label? Because they say it..... |
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mrneddles 3T WIS
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So DOXA as a company is still FOS. Meh. |
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